Mostly Autumn @ the Cambridge Rock Festival

I wasn't at the festival this year and I can't comment on whether HippyDave is right or not but if plenty of MA fans from the forum over there read it you may need to don your tin hat mate.

It is true that, not just previous CRF festivals, but some of MA's own shows in the spring suffered from sound that was at best flat. Leicester which I attended was such and the last CRF I went to when marillion headlined the most flat show I have ever seen them do and that does affect our views on the performance.

I have thought that MA's set has needed a revamp for some time now and it has had something of one since Livvy arrived. There is an interview in the bag with her coming up in the next issue of Autumn Leaves and we talk about this topic of what and how to approach the set singing what are someone else's songs and it is difficult to get everything perfect. It was the same with Heidi when she sang with MA for that spell some years back, singing songs written for a different voice, though she did well as does Livvy with Heathers songs. That is why qustionning eyes stood out so much, great song too, on the spring tour.

I anticipate a major revamp with the emergence of Go-well Diamond Heart and hopefully your confidence restored though I too wish to see Evergreen and Heroes dropped just for one tour and replaced with the never played Glass Shadows title track and a different sky only once played when I have attended. Not going to happen though and we all know that.

I think roger has just read your post and his reaction

Paul Turner

Belmont77 wrote:

I wasn't at the festival this year and I can't comment on whether HippyDave is right or not but if plenty of MA fans from the forum over there read it you may need to don your tin hat mate.

Heh, I'd expect no less. It's human nature to be more forgiving of problems if you are particularly fond of (a) the material being played and (b) the people playing said material - I'd like to think I'd be entirely objective in anything I write about any band's performance, but I'm not sure that's possible for 100% of bands in anyone's case. My recent (since Storms..., anyway) disillusionment with Mostly Autumn probably coloured my thoughts on their set, which didn't help - but quite honestly, I've seen them play a lot better in the past, and they really needed to pull off a total blinder to properly win me over.

Thanks for not hauling me over the coals, though, Paul!

Belmont77 wrote:

I have thought that MA's set has needed a revamp for some time now and it has had something of one since Livvy arrived. There is an interview in the bag with her coming up in the next issue of Autumn Leaves and we talk about this topic of what and how to approach the set singing what are someone else's songs and it is difficult to get everything perfect. It was the same with Heidi when she sang with MA for that spell some years back, singing songs written for a different voice, though she did well as does Livvy with Heathers songs. That is why qustionning eyes stood out so much, great song too, on the spring tour.

Yeah, all fair points. Tim had told me a few of the (very welcome!) set changes that had been made on the tour, and I was looking forward to the set - and I daresay the by-and-large utterly predictable nature of the set didn't help any, since what was played hit two extremes for me: songs I really dislike, and songs that were probably overplayed about 5 years ago. Enough with bloody Evergreen already! It's a great song, but it's entered the realms of Money, Easter, Stairway To Heaven and Run To The Hills now - it sorely needs a rest. I can perhaps see Heroes being trotted out more regularly, as it's sort of the cornerstone of MA's back catalogue, but frankly I don't think it'd hurt to not play it for a while. That way when it returns it might smell a bit less stale.

Belmont77 wrote:

I anticipate a major revamp with the emergence of Go-well Diamond Heart and hopefully your confidence restored though I too wish to see Evergreen and Heroes dropped just for one tour and replaced with the never played Glass Shadows title track and a different sky only once played when I have attended. Not going to happen though and we all know that.

I totally agree with you. But there is one of my major issues with MA right there: why is it not going to happen? I'd like to hear one really good reason. The only one that would make any sense is that the band don't actually rate the songs, which - considering they're from their most recent release - doesn't exactly betray a huge amount of confidence in their writing. It feels to me - and it's something I've attempted to communicate in the past, though it only resulted in a cyber-beating from the MA forum admin(s) - that the band are content to ignore their post-Passengers material for the most part and exist on recycling their earlier work to keep their original fans happy. The fact that the first three albums are out of print just makes this approach seem all the more cliquey and unreasonable.

If it feels like I've been unreasonably harsh about the band in this thread, I should point out that I own all of MA's studio albums, have been a fan since around the time of Spirit..., and would like nothing better than to walk into a show (or pick up a new MA studio album, for that matter) and be blown away, in the way that they used to blow me away. But it's not happened since Storms for me, on record, or live. The records give me just enough crumbs of what I love about MA to keep me coming back to try again, but I haven't been to see the band for quite some time, and Sunday only served to remind me why, rather than reminding me what I've been missing.

Belmont77 wrote:

I think roger has just read your post and his reaction

I'd expect no less a reaction from Roger! I'd be frankly astonished if he felt the band had ever, in any way, disappointed (see my first paragraph)!

I already knew from previous conversations what your views of MA were Dave, and I admire your honesty. We should be able to post our honest opinions and if they are not positive then that it is equally valuable feedback for any band/business. Negative feedback is meant to help improve any business, and should be welcomed and at least listened to.

Paul - Marie knows that I'm not a Danny Vaughan fan

H

I'm not particularly familiar with the whole MA cannon, but Heroes and Evergreen are my favourite tracks so I was very pleased to hear them. There one tiny fragment of keyboard on Evergreen that brings the hairs up on the back of my neck. And then Questioning for the second time (after BA) was great.

I sometimes find that all a band does is push the new album, whereas the fans want hear their favourites.

There's only so much you can do in an hour when each track is 8 - 10 minutes.

Just wanted to clarify that I am a huge MA fan myself, but do agree that sometimes their gigs are less than brilliant, and Hippydave is perfectly entitled to say what he thinks - afterall they are his thoughts.

H

Unfortunately I could not make this this show (see my post elsewhere on the forum), so cannot comment on the actual performances being discussed.
I have seen Mostly Autumn many times, and will happily admit to loving their music. However not every gig has been fantastic. Some have actually bored me, and HippyDave gave a well written, intelligent summary of the gig, as he saw it.

Kalyr said:

"As for Mostly Autumn's set, all I can say is that HippyDave might be entitled to his opinion, but I think he's as wrong about them as Jerry Bloom is about Marillion on Heather's forum."

There is no "might be entitled" about it. He IS entitled to his opinion.
Just because he has a contrary opinion to some others here, does not make his opinion any less valid.

This festival sounded an absolute blast, and I am so jealous of you lucky people who were there!

Maybe next year!!

MikeFoley, that's a bit harsh on Kalyr? Just as HippyDave is entitled to an opinion, so are others...even when they're different.

Chicken Drumstick wrote:

MikeFoley, that's a bit harsh on Kalyr? Just as HippyDave is entitled to an opinion, so are others...even when they're different.

That's what I was trying to say, maybe I worded it badly. What I was trying to say is that everyone is entitled to an opinion, whatever that opinion is. I took exception to the use of the phrase "might be entitled".

MikeFoley wrote:

Chicken Drumstick wrote:

MikeFoley, that's a bit harsh on Kalyr? Just as HippyDave is entitled to an opinion, so are others...even when they're different.

That's what I was trying to say, maybe I worded it badly. What I was trying to say is that everyone is entitled to an opinion, whatever that opinion is. I took exception to the use of the phrase "might be entitled".

I think it's just a classic instance of humour not translating well to plain text - I can't imagine for an instant that Tim was implying that I only "might" be entitled to my opinion, more that he accepted that I was clearly entitled to my opinion but that he felt it was incorrect. That's the cut'n'thrust of internet debate! I certainly didn't take offence to the comment, and to be honest I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here, Mike...

Cheers for saying my original post(s) were "well written" and "intelligent", though. There's a first time for everything!

Thanks Hippydave, I'll check both ends of the stick in future!


I must admit I didn't pick up on any humour in Tim's comment, my mistake. apologies!

I think it's a classic case of "the written word". You can't put inflections, and often you can type something and discover someone else has put the emphasis on a different word in a sentence and got a whole new meaning. It's happened to me far too many times - BS forum included!

Mr Gig wrote:

I'm not particularly familiar with the whole MA cannon, but Heroes and Evergreen are my favourite tracks so I was very pleased to hear them. There one tiny fragment of keyboard on Evergreen that brings the hairs up on the back of my neck. And then Questioning for the second time (after BA) was great.

I sometimes find that all a band does is push the new album, whereas the fans want hear their favourites.

There's only so much you can do in an hour when each track is 8 - 10 minutes.

Whilst I'm still fed up with these songs appearing in every MA setlist (it seems), you make a fair point: a festival gig is not necessarily the place to be adventurous with your set lists, and it makes sense that MA would showcase some of their "classic" material. Which in turn beggars the question of why Dreaming was in the set in the first place, instead of, say, The Night Sky, Winter Mountain, Passengers, Storms Over Still Water, etc, etc, but I'm not going to get stuck into that debate as well... In fairness, Evergreen in particular is a great song, and I do really enjoy it - it's just I wish they had the conviction to play something different once in a while. Considering that MA have got 8 studio albums under their belt (soon to be 9 - and a couple of them are doubles), it's maddening to me as a fan that they only ever seem to draw on about 15% of their back catalogue. But as I say, I do totally see your point!

My disappointment largely stems from the fact that I was planning to go and see MA at the Robin later in the year, but based on Sunday even wild horses couldn't drag me there now. I know everyone can have a rough gig once in a while, but when the majority of people seem to reckon it was a great set, that doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence in me, as I'm sure you folks reading this may appreciate. It's taken years and a steady trickle of disappointments, but I'm starting to come around to the idea that MA just aren't for me anymore.

As for the 8-10 minute length of the tracks, perhaps they could do worse than learn the art of brevity and not bolt a 5-minute guitar solo onto everything. Obviously Bryan's playing is one of the chief components of the MA sound, but the solos are starting to become completely interchangeable now. I don't think it'd kill them to occasionally say, "OK, that song's done, we don't need to extend it."

In fact, after a comment made to me off-forum, I feel I should clarify my remark about the opening of Spirit, which I said went on far too long on Sunday. It's not that I don't like Liam's playing - far from it, in my eyes he's every bit as good a player as Bryan, as his performances on the Breathing Space back catalogue testify - just that although the playing was good, it just went on for ages. Not necessarily something you want to indulge in during a festival set, which, as has been pointed out several times here, is only so long to begin with.

Yeah, perhaps I'm just hard to please!

Hels@Hippychick wrote:

Just wanted to clarify that I am a huge MA fan myself, but do agree that sometimes their gigs are less than brilliant, and Hippydave is perfectly entitled to say what he thinks - after all they are his thoughts.

Make that two fivers in the post!

I'd just like to say how vgood it is to see a well thought out debate going on, rather than various people ranting!

I agree with some of what Dave has said too, although I did enjoy the set very much. I like Bryan's guitar work but yes, sometimes it seems a bit like you've heard it before (which is OK as I like it) BUt the time could be used to throw in another short track perhaps? I love Dreaming and I'm glad that was there rather than Carpe Diem which has been played a lot recently. But I'd like to hear The End Of The World and Glass Shadows (title track) done live (don't think they ever have?) plus a return for Fireside, Different Sky, Which Wood, Out Of The Inn, etc.

And I'd like to hear Liam used more too, not just as a bit of intro.

Actually there's just too much I like. Let's just have a whole day and play all of every album!!

Yes, I heartily agree and have said as much before that the written word can and is misinterpreted. The writer means one thing and the reader assumes something different.

However, it is nice to see a lively debate happening on the forum now that things have hotted up on the stage - so to speak. More of the same please and keep spreading the word folks.

H xx

Some fair points about Mostly Autumn's setlist - I know I've been publically critical of the conservatism of some tour setlists in recent times, and I'd love to hear songs like "Glass Shadows" or "The Second Hand", or oldies like "The Night Sky" or "Steal Away".

But given the circumstances I can't see them playing a much better setlist than they did. The band have been busy in the studio working on the new album, and those band members who are also members of Breathing Space or Panic Room surely needed time to rehearse for their first gigs with those bands' new lineups. So it would have been difficult to get the whole band together to rehearse anything new that wasn't in the spring tour setlist.

Clearly they wanted to play more of the shorter more up-tempo songs rather than the atmospheric epics - if they'd played the likes of "Storms Over Still Water" or "The Last Climb" they'd probably have to have been at the expense of "The Last Bright Light". Whatever they did, they were never going to please everyone.

Have to disagree with the idea that they were a tired band going through the motions; that really wasn't the impression I got, and doesn't seem to be the impression I get from most other people either. No, it wasn't the best I've seen them this year - that set didn't top Bury or Shepherds Bush. But it was far, far stronger than the gremlin-plagued set last year.

Maybe you got a different impression depending on where you were - When I saw Marillion at High Voltage I started out at the back of the crowd, where there was no atmosphere and everything felt a bit flat. Then as people left to see the start of ELP I moved much further forward towards the centre of the crowd, where the sound was far better, and they last part of the set was amazing.

So in the true spirit of a healthy debate - some of us will have to agree to disagree - fair point?
Vive la difference, as they say in France.

H

At the risk of turning this into the "Are Mostly Autumn any cop these days?" thread...!

Kalyr wrote:

given the circumstances I can't see them playing a much better setlist than they did. The band have been busy in the studio working on the new album, and those band members who are also members of Breathing Space or Panic Room surely needed time to rehearse for their first gigs with those bands' new lineups. So it would have been difficult to get the whole band together to rehearse anything new that wasn't in the spring tour setlist.

Yeah, that's true enough. Mind you, if the performance had been spirited enough for me, I wouldn't be sitting here pissing and moaning about the set list...

Kalyr wrote:

Clearly they wanted to play more of the shorter more up-tempo songs rather than the atmospheric epics - if they'd played the likes of "Storms Over Still Water" or "The Last Climb" they'd probably have to have been at the expense of "The Last Bright Light". Whatever they did, they were never going to please everyone.

So what you're saying is, I should just count myself lucky they didn't decide to wheel out <pause to allow the bile to subside> Pocket Watch?

Kalyr wrote:

Have to disagree with the idea that they were a tired band going through the motions; that really wasn't the impression I got, and doesn't seem to be the impression I get from most other people either. No, it wasn't the best I've seen them this year - that set didn't top Bury or Shepherds Bush. But it was far, far stronger than the gremlin-plagued set last year.

Maybe you got a different impression depending on where you were - When I saw Marillion at High Voltage I started out at the back of the crowd, where there was no atmosphere and everything felt a bit flat. Then as people left to see the start of ELP I moved much further forward towards the centre of the crowd, where the sound was far better, and they last part of the set was amazing.

Well, I wasn't right at the front, so yeah, I suppose that may have been a contributing factor. I tried a couple of vantage points: the sound was appalling at both positions, but it wasn't too far forward. I suppose at the end of the day, I just wasn't enthused enough to persevere. The end result was the same: the band lost a body in the tent (and quite likely a ticket sale for the Robin show towards the end of the year), and I missed the rest of a set that I had been looking forward to. Hardly an ideal result for either of us, then!

Just to echo what Helen & Trevor have said: nice to see that whilst I'm clearly in a minority, everyone's been reasonable and cool-headed with their responses. Well played folks, I can't see this particular debate happening elsewhere...

Leave it to me to be controversial!

Thought I'd wade in to the great MA CRF debate as well. I have to say that I did see the gig totally differently to HippyDave. I took up my usual place at the back, just in front of the sound desk, and I thought the sound was excellent. Livvy's vocals were coming through loud and clear, Anne-Marie's superb flute playing didn't get lost in the mix, and I thought Bryan's guitar was at just the right level.

I love Liam's intro to Spirit, especially those high notes. It reminded me of Pink Floyd's Empty Spaces off The Wall. The part before the vocal comes in. I do agree that Questioning Eyes was probably the highlight of the set. And like HippyDave, I'm no great lover of Dreaming, but I do love that dreamy solo that Bryan plays just before it segues into Evergreen.

Regarding the set list, the band are playing to a lot of music fans that have not seen them play before. They have to play their strongest material, regardless of when it was recorded. This means that Evergreen, Heroes, Spirit et al really should get played. After Heather left, I did actually think that Evergreen might go from the set list, but it survived the cull. Maybe this imbalance in the set list is the price the band has to pay for making all those great songs in the early years. I also thought it was right that the band played those four/five minute rockers early on to keep the pace rattling along.

It was a shame that nothing from Storms got played, especially the title track. And Carpe Diem would have mesmerised a festival crowd. Heart Full Of Sky was well represented with two of the longer songs, but I would have liked to hear Faerytale to represent Glass Shadows. A great song, but I know other posts have called for other songs. Just shows how hard it is for Bryan to do the set list, especially for a shortened set.

I have to disagree with HippyDave about the band looking tired, and a lack of energy/spirit. And appearing to be just going through the motions. As I was stood at the back, my eyes kept diverting to the two video screens at each side of the stage. There were plenty of facial close ups. This would have exposed any negative body language. What I saw was a performance of power, passion, energy and quality.

If HippyDave is still throwing fivers around, does this review qualify for one!!!!


Steve

I must agree with everyone that this is a PROPER forum debate! No tempers/egos; so well done on that front

I am gonna agree with Tim, and everyone else here who believes that MA played a great set at the weekend. Sure it wasn't the best I've ever seen the band (that was either Heather's last gig; or the spring outing in Exeter) but that's all to be expected at a festival without a proper soundcheck, an unfamiliar stage crew and a potentially bad audience. It's always harder for bands to play quieter songs at festivals I think because of the amount of nattering that is bound to go on by people who are not all that familiar with the band; or gig etiquette at all!

While we're here though I will mention that I thought the version of Heroes was probably the most emotional I've ever seen (close to tears, I'll admit) because of the Help for Heroes plea before hand. Made the song have extra special meaning that night and I will never forget it!

HippyDave wrote:

So what you're saying is, I should just count myself lucky they didn't decide to wheel out <pause to allow the bile to subside> Pocket Watch?

Hopefully that song is dead and buried now!

StrangeMagic wrote:

It was a shame that nothing from Storms got played, especially the title track. And Carpe Diem would have mesmerised a festival crowd. Heart Full Of Sky was well represented with two of the longer songs, but I would have liked to hear Faerytale to represent Glass Shadows. A great song, but I know other posts have called for other songs. Just shows how hard it is for Bryan to do the set list, especially for a shortened set.

"Out of the Green Sky", "Storms" itself and "Faerytale" were all in the setlist at various points on the spring tour, so would make candidates for inclusion. Which songs would you have dropped in order to include them? (I can think of the three I'd have dropped)

"Carpe Diem" is still my all-time favourite Mostly Autumn song, and was one of the highlights of their CRF2009 set - but surely it's too similar to "Questioning Eyes", which was one of the high points of the set.

Nobody is every going to do a "perfect" setlist apart from a band who have only got one album and just play all of it, simply because no two fans like exactly the same songs. Panic Room didn't play anything from the first album, and even Breathing Space still didn't do "Shades of Grey" (And having heard Heidi sing, I've love to hear that in the set more than ever!)

And a challenge to HippyDave, since he started this - What would your ideal setlist have been?

{edited for typo}

Kalyr wrote:

HippyDave wrote:

So what you're saying is, I should just count myself lucky they didn't decide to wheel out <pause to allow the bile to subside> Pocket Watch?

Hopefully that song is dead and buried now!

StrangeMagic wrote:

It was a shame that nothing from Storms got played, especially the title track. And Carpe Diem would have mesmerised a festival crowd. Heart Full Of Sky was well represented with two of the longer songs, but I would have liked to hear Faerytale to represent Glass Shadows. A great song, but I know other posts have called for other songs. Just shows how hard it is for Bryan to do the set list, especially for a shortened set.

"Out of the Green Sky", "Storms" itself and "Faerytale" were all in the setlist at various points on the spring tour, so would make candidates for inclusion. Which songs would you have dropped in order to include them? (I can think of the three I'd have dropped)

"Carpe Diem" is still my all-time favourite Mostly Autumn song, and was one of the highlights of their CRF2009 set - but surely it's too similar to "Questioning Eyes", which was one of the high points of the set.

Nobody is every going to do a "perfect" setlist apart from a band who have only got one album and just play all of it, simply because no two fans like exactly the same songs. Panic Room didn't play anything from the first album, and even Breathing Space still didn't do "Shades of Grey" (And having heard Heidi sing, I've love to hear that in the set more than ever!)

And a challenge to HippyDave, since he started this - What would your ideal setlist have been?

{edited for typo}

I would do one of two things to try and accomodate.

Scenario 1

Drop - The Last Bright Light, Dreaming & Caught In A Fold

Replace with - Storms Over Still Water, Carpe Diem & Faerytale

Scenario 2

Drop - Dreaming & Caught In A Fold

Replace with - Faerytale and either Storms Over Still Water or Carpe Diem


I did think that the band did perform The Last Bright Light superbly on Sunday night. At least these changes would get something from both Storms and Glass Shadows into the set list, while at the same time showcasing the band's strongest material.

I would also be very interested to see a HippyDave MA set list!

StrangeMagic wrote:

I would also be very interested to see a HippyDave MA set list!

All right, guys, I'll bite!

Keeping the set roughly the same length:

Fading Colours
Out Of The Green Sky
Caught In A Fold
The Dark Before The Dawn
Answer The Question
The Last Bright Light
Questioning Eyes
Passengers
Storms Over Still Water
The Night Sky
Heroes

I've left Heroes in based purely on the reasons given above for it getting played - if you asked me what I'd like to have replaced it with, I'd say Mother Nature - every bit as much of a classic, but one that has at least been given a bit of a rest.

I've also left Answer The Question in, despite complaining about how lifeless the version played was - it's actually one of my favourite tracks from Passengers, so as long as it's played with plenty of welly I'm more than happy to keep it! Ditto Dark Before The Dawn, always one of my favourite MA rockers.

There you go - back of the net!

StrangeMagic wrote:

Thought I'd wade in to the great MA CRF debate as well. I have to say that I did see the gig totally differently to HippyDave. I took up my usual place at the back, just in front of the sound desk, and I thought the sound was excellent. Livvy's vocals were coming through loud and clear, Anne-Marie's superb flute playing didn't get lost in the mix, and I thought Bryan's guitar was at just the right level.

In front of the sound desk is usually a safe bet (at least if the sound engineer knows what he's about) as you're hearing pretty much what he hears. I didn't go over there, though, as there was a happy bunch of MA fans supping their ales and soaking it all in - I guess you were among them!

The sound problems were odd - like you, I had no problem hearing Anne-Marie's flute (or her vocals), but for the first three songs, Livvy was practically inaudible. Bryan's guitar was ear-splittingly loud, which was fine when he was soloing, but otherwise not so much. Iain had the opposite problem - he started off great, but seemed to get quieter and quieter as the set went on, culminating in his lead part on Answer The Question being far too low in the mix.

StrangeMagic wrote:

Regarding the set list, the band are playing to a lot of music fans that have not seen them play before. They have to play their strongest material, regardless of when it was recorded. This means that Evergreen, Heroes, Spirit et al really should get played. After Heather left, I did actually think that Evergreen might go from the set list, but it survived the cull. Maybe this imbalance in the set list is the price the band has to pay for making all those great songs in the early years. I also thought it was right that the band played those four/five minute rockers early on to keep the pace rattling along.

Totally agree with you on the last point - no point playing loads of ballads at a rock festival! As far as the rest of the things you mention are concerned, I would merely point out that MA are Cambridge veterans now - based on their previous appearances, headline slot, and the number of MA shirts circling the site over the course of the weekend, I highly doubt there were many people there that weren't familiar with the band. I would also point out that yes, OK, they did write loads of great songs early on in their career - but they also wrote a whole bunch of great songs, many of them fan favourites, throughout their career to date that hardly ever get played. Evergreen is a cracking song, but is it their best? Not by a long shot, in my book. Ditto Heroes, ditto Spirit - great songs, but they've done a lot better, too (IMO, of course).

StrangeMagic wrote:

I have to disagree with HippyDave about the band looking tired, and a lack of energy/spirit. And appearing to be just going through the motions. As I was stood at the back, my eyes kept diverting to the two video screens at each side of the stage. There were plenty of facial close ups. This would have exposed any negative body language. What I saw was a performance of power, passion, energy and quality.

Well, I sincerely doubt that the band felt they were going through the motions - if they did, then they should quit whilst they're ahead... I wasn't accusing them of going through the motions, merely of looking like they were - a fine distinction, maybe, but an important one. The only person I saw crack a smile during the first three songs was Gavin! That's another danger of unvarying set lists - after so many shows, it must stop being fun for the band, too. "What's next...? Oh, time for the encore - that'll be Evergreen and Heroes again, then..."

StrangeMagic wrote:

If HippyDave is still throwing fivers around, does this review qualify for one!!!!

No. But kudos for asking!

I LIKE Pocketwatch... the live arrangement, anyway!